17 Weaker: Piccolo. Before encountering the earthlings, Vegeta didn't know how to sense ki or how to raise/lower his power level. Folks say he learned a technique that took Master Roshi 50 years to develop and master by seeing it once. During the Frieza saga, Vegeta was able to gain multiple Zenkais due to battles against Zarbon, Recoome etc. Does he have enough ammo left for Frieza? Messages: 8,312 Likes Received: 1,181 Trophy Points: 1,044 … Vegeta actually had a chance, he just didn't use it optimally. That’s insane! The case will be made here that Babidi did not give Vegeta much, if anything. Vegeta despite having a wife and son only cares about himself. This also explains the muscular form "4.5" -- Frieza possessed the rather unique ability to shift his focus all along, and he was now all offense. However, in this particular battle, Vegeta stays alive against what is certainly the full brunt of Buu's attacks. The case can be made that Goku was in fact weaker. In the name of fairness, challengers will be compared to the version of Vegeta found in their respective arcs. So since Goku is simply better at this kind of fighting he always seems like he is considerably stronger, even when both vegeta and him take on the same ssj forms. First of all, Babidi didn't even make any promise to Vegeta about more power. I also think Goku trains for the right reasons. I'm hoping they're both ahead of him at the very least. Goku has a better student mindset, he sees himself as the guy who needs to learn rather than the guy who should be ahead already. I would argue that even though Vegeta is far stronger in every way, that even Tien has way more skill in ki manipulation than Vegeta. I guess the gap between MUI Goku and Spirit Control SSBE Vegeta is MUCH BIGGER THAN I THOUGHT! ^Great post. I actually wrote a "detailed" summary as to why I believe he is stronger.. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:The_large_gap_of_power_between,_Goku_and_Vegeta_during_the,_Majin_Buu_Saga?t=20121009035119. Although at the end although never seen, i believe Vegeta had reached SS3. On top of that, he trained for years with Gohan, Master Roshi, and later King Kai. In fact, Vegeta’s Super Saiyan forms are usually more powerful than Goku’s, but they are always developed after Goku's initial ascent. While Vegeta achieved ssj1,2 by training as well as ssg, ssb. Alrighty guys it is Qaaman here today and in this video I argue one of the biggest elements in the dragon ball z series. Given he has fought against opponents from many different schools, he's probably the most well rounded martial artist there is. Also, retard strength might play a role here. They were probably still around equal in power and speed at the time. It took, Krillin, Gohan, Gohan’s ape form and a slash from Yajirobe to beat Vegeta back then. I had a similar one in another fourm the only thing you're wrong about is Vegeta reaching SS2, he only let Babidi take control of him so that he could regain his evil nature and fight ruthlessly his power didn't change. Goku shows up (having conveniently trained on Yardrat and thus has increased power and the new instant transmission technique) and outclasses Trunks. Fat Buu, who challenged Supersaiyan 3 Goku, and was beat up to the point of regeneration by Vegeta. Vegeta was the one to aid Gohan in his final defeat of Cell. It just happens that all of the major enemies of the Z fighters are a single (or double) super opponent, so Goku's style is more efficient. Even one attack should have killed him. So you'd think in the Buu saga, Vegeta would have come around and cared for his family, right? And he gains techniques on seeing them. Goku launches massive Kamehameha Waves and drains himself empty. It's like Ask Science, but for all universes other than our own. Goku just got ssj from his rage during battle, he had to train nonstop in heaven to get ssj2,3 and he just got SSG (and followingbthat blue) from a ritual. Hence, I can conclude without a doubt based on this evidence that Vegeta isn't stronger than Beerus. Here is evidence of Super Buu being stronger than Kid Buu. Nope, but it was damn satisfying though lol. I read somewhere that Akira Toriyama doesn't even like Vegeta, and that he only kept him alive and added as a recurring character due to fans. While casting the spell on vegeta babidi did say something about Restoring your power to the way it was before you decided to resist your dark nature . This may have provided a release Vegeta sorely needed to realise his own potential, but it was his own potential. Goku’s base strength is so pitiful that it can’t even keep up with a Vegeta who’s just warming up, the Elite Saiyan forcing Goku to trigger Kaioken immediately or perish. Still, since both Goku and Vegeta have access to the same transformation, it should theoretically indicate who is stronger. Vegeta and Gotenks don’t fight, but there would be no contest if they did. The contention can certainly be held that Vegeta isn't, and never has been, weaker than Goku. If you do, you may not be ready for the final battle and get taken out early. His form is stronger than Goku’s too. Goku saw the weaknesses in the transformation, Vegeta didn't. That guy, as far as we know, doesn't exist. And Black interpreted Vegeta's strength as channeling his hate, but I think Vegeta is growing. Saiyans like Vegeta only went after small fry who they could easily beat. So while Vegeta probably is stronger in a purely physical fight, Goku's focus and mastery over his ki (which is often fueled by his righteousness and virtue), and especially his ability to maintain his ki despite getting massively beaten down, is why he'll always beat Vegeta in the long run, Goku is also more willing to reflect on himself. But nope, the writers decide to write that Vegeta is too arrogant to just kill Cell at Imperfect Form. Secondly, though Vegeta's extreme pride played a part in his ability to resist the mind control, the fact that the magic didn't fully work on him might have been a sign that he was too strong for it to really work in the first place. That alone can make up for a considerable gulf in power. Vegeta held his own against Omega just as well as Goku... Goku who had just recieved a huge dose of Saiyan energy from his friends, and gone past his usual Supersaiyan 4 potential. Why, Goku of course! Now let's take a closer comparison from a comprehensive perspective. And on top of that, Goku is friends with some of the strongest humans in the universe. Much of the fighting in DBZ comes down to ki mastery, something that can be taught to an extent, but will always rely upon the individual. He over-trains often. Could he have actually learned the form if he hadn't been dead? currently, vegeta did much better against black than what goku did, so he is probably ahead, goku seems to have much better controll over his ki tho, which is why he can use kaio ken. Vegeta trains at least 100 times harder and more often than Goku so why can Vegeta never surpass him for long? Frieza had the added advantage of having known Vegeta from a child. Therefore, the attack could have hurt Frieza. Goku has no such weakness. If Goku’s son continued to evolve and train, Gohan could have matured into the strongest Z fighter of all time. So he'll probably beat Vegeta 8 times out of 10. who got one-shotted by Toppo.Goku hyper focused on landing an attack, ultimately letting his guard down, while Toppo used this to his advantage to win. This is a recurrent theme, and Vegeta always trains accordingly, despite the fact that blowing away a large portion of Cell, just as Vegeta already did, was all Goku could do to Perfect Cell. No matter how much Vegeta improved, Goku was always 2 steps ahead of him. The first is that inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, where both Goku and Vegeta got a chance to train, Vegeta barely acknowledged Trunks's existence, while Goku, thinking of passing the torch so that this time someone else would be the saviour, focused mainly on his son's improvement. Here we can finally have some meaningful comparison. Indisputably, Goku was considerably weaker than Vegeta at this time, even with all his advantages. Piccolo holds his own against Android 20. Vegeta is literally stronger than goku right now. Now, when each of them trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for a day (a year) each, they both were able to reach Ascended Super Saiyan transformations. Perhaps it wasn't just a matter of Vegeta attaining his transformations late, but Goku getting them early. Not sure if Super counts, but Vegeta definitely gets a significant rage power-up when Beerus slaps Bulma around. If they both had trained under similar conditions their entire lives, Vegeta might have become stronger. It was a personal thing, he was saying Goku is #1 as in he is superior to him and Vegeta is always a step behind and whenever Vegeta does get stronger Goku steps up to the plate and surpasses him again. This is because of true Saiyan pride, which, like a concept of honour, can easily put one at a disadvantage. Who? Ever since Vegeta lost on Earth against Goku and Co. Vegeta had been striving to be stronger than Goku, but never succeeded. Outside of combat he's as dumb as a bag of rocks that have fetal alcoholism. Quid Errat Demonstratum. All that being said, we've yet to see the gains he made from his time in RoSaT. They both pass out from being drained. Frieza had advantages against Vegeta that he simply did not have against Goku. But, it's not just fighting that Vegeta is better at, he outmatches Goku in a lot of other categories. People always say Goku has no natural talent and he trained his whole life to become were he is. Watch the episode. vegeta was probably surpassing him at the start of super, then goku got godki. Because the goddamn main character. Whis is just noting both of them are equals now in terms of their SSBs, where before only Goku showed a mastery of it Vegeta has yet to achieve. However, even then, even with his pride working against him and his doubt eating away, Vegeta manages to hurt Perfect Cell very badly with a Final Flash. Vegeta for much of his adult life had the same flaw that Frieza had. Goku, from a young age, has been mastering the use of ki. Vegeta’s Super Saiyan Bule Evolution is stronger than Goku’s full power SSB. It is of great importance that Vegeta and Goku were evenly matched (as Supersaiyan 2s) when Vegeta was endowed with Majin ability from Babidi. As for the baby Cells each beating up a character (including Vegeta), that's easy. He probably had a Zenkai from each of his near destructions. He overcalculated, and he second-guessed, deciding the form was worthless from the outset, whereas Trunks at least tried it against Cell. It is unkown if his first form was actually stronger than Gohan, he did catch him by surprise, sorta. Several times, Frieza did appear to be surprised or threatened by the magnitude of Vegeta's attacks. TBH I'm not sure that is true. The creators of the anime must have felt the same way, because their disdain for the character showed even in their added content and the completely original DBZ movies. Vegeta’s even stronger as an Oozaru, crippling virtually every single bone in Goku’s body. What that means is that Goku learned to get stronger by approaching masters and learning new techniques. Frieza did increase his power to fight Goku, but the question is, how much? One reason that I read recently was that in their initial training Vegeta was trained as a soldier, to slaughter weaker opponents, and fight in groups in order to serve Frieza. Just a few main points here, since there's an issue with the cannonity of this series. That increased his power level by 300 times. In this form, Vegeta is arguably even more powerful than Goku when Goku powers up to his own Super Saiyan Blue … That wasn't what happened in the Vegeta/Goku fight, proving that this was not an exponential increase. After the saga is over, he quickly deteriorates, discarding powerlevel for flirtations and academia. But once Goku discovered the advantages of mastering the initial Super Saiyan transformation, he was able to lessen the weaknesses of the Super Saiyan transformation, such as burning to much energy at once. Goku is stronger than Vegeta because Goku has ascended to Super Saiyan 3 something that Vegeta never achieved unless you played the video games. He'd already stated before the World Martial Arts Tournament even began that he'd surpassed Teen Gohan from the Cell Games. Goku trains like a mad man. And then Goku being Goku comes in, thinks they need help and makes them out the potato earrings on. Goku fans would argue that Goku is stronger because he has reached Super Saiyan 3 form which Vegeta didn't. However, VEgeta DID have natural talent and he trained harder than goku, fighting stronger opponets, trained in heavier gravity, trained in the ROSAT longer, trained in higher gravity for 7 years. When presented with a stronger opponent, the greater intellect of Vegeta simply has more capacity for doubt. Here there is simply no data for comparison, except to say that Vegeta fought (and presumably gained power) while Goku lied in bed recovering. Vegeta's attitude is what is holding him back. When he first came to planet earth to find the Dragons Balls, he kicked Goku’s ass. It can be assumed that Goku was able to gain a Zenkai or two while training under the gravity. Vegeta is obsessed with being the best, and suffers when he isn't, both Goku realizes the truth that there is no "best". The thing about Goku is that even when Vegeta is stronger than Goku (and there are plenty of instances where this is the case) Goku is smarter. Warning Spoilers: A squad of Moro's henchmen arrive on Yardrat to … Because he's Goku's son. which is why it's hilarious that people consider him a moron. One great example that comes to mind is the Cooler Part II movie. We have also seen during the fight with Super 17 that it is implied Vegeta is the strongest of the Z warriors if Goku isn't around, but this should NOT be the case because Majuub is absolutely stronger than Vegeta at this point and he was beaten easily by Super 17 while Vegeta lasted a little bit longer, and Gohan couldn't even win against Metal Rildo, let alone Super 17. It may have even disappeared. [[Category:{{{1}}}|Why is goku stronger than vegeta?]]. He does it all the time, testing new enemies and then finally going all out. It shows even more in Dragonball GT (if you consider it canon), where Goku trains for 10 years on Kami's Lookout, while Vegeta basically gave up training to spend time with his family. Sure, Goku got to certain warrior milestones before Vegeta did, but Vegeta still got there eventually, polishing his battle skills along the way. So while Vegeta probably is stronger in a purely physical fight, Goku's focus and mastery over his ki (which is often fueled by his righteousness and virtue), and especially his ability to maintain his ki despite getting massively beaten down, is why he'll always beat Vegeta in the long run Goku is also more willing to reflect on himself. The percieved imbalance of raw power, and the ability of Goku to take on and defeat stronger foes, has nothing to do with actual battle strength, fighting power, powerlevel, or whatever you choose to call it. At this point he was even with Vegeta -- even enough to fuse. Also when beerus slapped bulma he was for a few seconds stronger than goku. An exponential increase -- such as that granted from a new transformation -- has unfailingly tipped the scales in favour of even laughably weaker fighters. Maybe this was another Universe and our beloved DBZ universe is one of the other ones lol, like a Tales From The Multiverse or something. Goku has always been motivated to become stronger whenever his friends' (or any other person's) lives were at stake (Example: Goku goes SSJ when Krillin dies). The most significant point to consider here is Vegeta's intense training at 300x gravity, while Goku is forced to waste time on trying to obtain his driver's license. He loves Trunks and Bulma and is using that love and this "What if?" Then they're taken into the Big Gete Star and have the life sucked out of them; they both even rebound by powering up and overloading the circuits. This is what it took for Goku to defeat Frieza, even as a Supersaiyan. Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. When Goku became a Super Saiyan for the first time due to Krillin's death, his power completely overmatched Vegeta's. To reach their power levels, they need a mastery of ki energy above and beyond that of most races, something that Goku has learned over his years of training and fighting alongside them. But I just wanted to say that, while the original poster of this sub-section listed great reasons why Goku is stronger, in the end it only explains so much. There is no sincerity in his motivation. In the Namek Saga and Ginyu Saga, it can be assumed that for a brief period, because of Goku's intense (and senzu bean cheaty-cheaty) gravity training on his way to the planet Namek, he may have surpassed Vegeta in raw power for a short time. We'll never know because he didn't even try. We know this because at no time did Vegeta ever approach anyone and ask to learn anything. Frieza turtled. Not until he achieved Supersaiyan. Due to this balance, we have enjoyed watching the rivalry between Goku and Vegeta throughout the show. Babidi didn't give Vegeta any new powers as the SS2 was already reached by Vegeta. Kid Buu is simply too much of a hyperactive, attention-defecient maniac to toy with someone for that long. And let's not forget that later in this story arc, Goku himself establishes that the "dead" body (and Goku is dead at this time) has more endurance than a living one. Goku loves it when somebody is stronger than him for the sheer joy of the challenge. Is it just so the plot would be better or am i missing something? By forcing Vegeta into an enraged state, any chance Vegeta had of actually landing a blow evaporated. During the seven years of peace, Vegeta continued his gravity training. Vegeta has a masssive inferiority complex about ANYTHING that Goku does that might make him stronger, which is both a blessing and a curse. This was after having fought Fat Buu as a Supersaiyan 3 (also with his higher-endurance afterlife-granted body), and although Goku may have intended for Buu to turn on Babidi, he's not the type to actually lie, therefore his complements to Fat Buu about being a good and challenging fighter were genuine. Vegeta trains at least 100 times harder and more often than Goku so why can Vegeta never surpass him for long? Nonetheless, in this post, we are going to state the reason why Vegeta was stronger than Goku in season 1 of super anime and the manga version if Goku did have Kaioken and Ultra Instinct. But who gets up to finish Cooler? Why should he falter now, if not because he simply wasn't quite ready to take that form? It's a constant climb, and there is always going to be someone ahead of you so no sense in getting worked up about the order. Whereas, Vegeta was simply great upon his birth and didn't have to overcome the simplest things. Due to this balance, we have enjoyed watching the rivalry between Goku and Vegeta throughout the show. Majin Vegeta told a Super Saiyan 2 Goku that he was stronger than Gohan (Cell arc). Wow! All things considered, Goku isn't stronger than Jiren yet and there are many reasons for that. We use a [Watsonian point of view](http://fanlore.org/wiki/Watsonian_vs._Doylist), versus Doylist. But anyways, you get the idea. Mistshadow, Apr 23, 2017 #16. via: syfy.com. However Goku was trained to fight one on one. So, there you have it. It should be noted that Vegeta did attempt to take on Frieza in his 4th Form. Vegeta was constantly told he was the best, and he believed his own hype so much that he didn't take training as serious as he should have. Ultimate Gohan wrecks Majin Vegeta without missing a beat. From all of the points mentioned above, we get a conclusion that Goku is stronger than Vegeta in terms of power boosts and transformations. This is when Vegeta realized that he could no longer rival Goku in power. Yet another case of Goku's repitoire of techniques tipping the scales in his favour. Vegeta is also much more interesting as a character than Goku, his dynamic development and … If it isn't Goku saving the day, it's his son(s). That means that at least one of King Vegeta’s children, the most unlikely one as well, is stronger than one of Bardock’s children. Without a doubt, Vegeta is the strongest character in the Dragonball universe at this point. Let's move on to Kid Buu, and the final battle. His obsession with becoming stronger than Goku over-shadowed his need to protect his family. Frieza, yes. Finally, at long last, Vegeta and Goku are in the same transformation! Press J to jump to the feed. But by the end of the series they are equal from their base forms through Super Saiyan 2. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskScienceFiction community. There was a fan-theory that shed some light on this - it comes down to their fighting styles: Vegeta was trained as a soldier, and learned how to fight armies. He learned it in Otherwold, where his supernatural body was supernaturally strong. Only the enraged, Supersaiyan 2 Gohan (who "did it right" for the first time) was stronger than Perfect Cell. With Regard to Goku (Note: Episode 131, made it clear that Goku couldn't utilise his Mastered Ultra Instinct Transformation through will. He's mastered his skills at all levels from the challenging the weakest to the strongest. And if THAT, isn't enough, they imply that Trunks is stronger than his own father. We can see the big difference in their mindset when they met Beerus. And if that isn't enough, Goku, being the imicile that he is consistently shown to be, has conveniently discovered the "Super" form in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and develops full-power super sayain. If you watch resurrection of frieza arc they both were on same level but Vegeta didn't needed other saiyans power to gain god ki he did that on his own training with help of whis. However, there is more than pride at work here. It seems one-sided, as Vegeta is always vowing to surpass Goku, but the truth is: Vegeta was stronger than Goku in their first encounter. It makes him seem stronger, but he isn't. If I remember correctly, Vegeta starts training with Whis first, and then he is able to go Blue before Goku, no? Goku and Vegeta are both Super Saiyans, and for once they work together and seem on par. Every time we think it's going to change because of things like Future Trunks coming and killing Freiza and King Cold, it just goes back to course. They have to be, since scouters explode at well below those powerlevels. In this video we are analyzing the reasons why Vegeta is Stronger than Goku currently. Goku always trained for the World Martial Arts Tournament, and learned how to handle single combat encounters. And I am NOT easily impressed these days! Goku threw Cell a senzu bean, the babies had the powerlevel of Cell, and Cell got a Zenkai from that bean. It's the same in a tournament, you don't go all out every match. Namekian regeneration + Saiyan Zenkai = OP.). It was the ultimate joke of the series. He explicitly says "you were born with so much natural talent that no matter how much I trained, you were always a step above me" or something like that. This worked because of Freiza's 4th Form and what it was all about: Speed. One wonders why exactly that is when Gotenks didn't seem to have that particular issue. Frieza played his ego like a xylophone. I never interpreted it as Vegeta saying Goku is the strongest person alive/he has ever been seen. Even though it's a much better idea to try the fusion dance first. 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